Mom off Joanna off Wales, partner regarding Llywelyn ab Iorwerth

Following my report about the children of Llywelyn Fawr and Joanna plus the solutions it received, I checked once again from genealogical users dedicated to Gwladus Ddu. While it’s real, once the multiple genealogists point out, one regarding the absence of certain research in some manner, the fresh new identity of one’s mother out-of Gwladus Ddu need to are ‘unknown’, I discovered you don’t need to transform my personal completion that their particular mommy try Joanna and not Tangwystyl.

She left no issue from the Alexander II

You to after that resource dedicated to its children is the after the conceptual throughout the ‘Leaders and you will Queens off Britain’ an authoritative guide, compiled by Oxford School Force, web page 106:

‘Llywelyn abdominal Iorwerth, b.1173, son away from Iorwerth Drwyndwn (‘Flatnose’) and you can Marared, daughter regarding Madog ap Maredudd; acc. east Gwynedd 1195; partnered Joan, illegitimate child out of Queen John, 1205; issue: Gruffudd (illegitimate), Dafydd, Gwenllian, Helen, Gwladus, Margaret, Susanna; died eleven April 1240; buried: Aberconwy.’

Basic, allow me to spend tribute in order to Sharon. Their unique look to possess ‘HBD’, ‘Drops this new Shadow’ and you will ‘This new Reckoning’, achieved up until the regarding the web, are it really is a good. Very nearly everything this lady has written in that trilogy really stands personal examination now.

To show it is besides me one believes very, i want to quotation that genealogist who is a lover out of Sharon: “I’m most fond of Sharon Kay Penman’s instructions. Even though they are not strictly biographical, I’m hotter counting on their own strive to ‘complete the brand new blanks’ (because of the number of research she without a doubt added to their own books), than in in reality citing some genealogical sources that i attended across the in my own search (I know everyone come Malta-naiset upon present like that). In order to anyone who has not even realize her works, I would recommend it most extremely, especially if you would like to get a feel for just what life is actually such 800 in years past.”

Pursuing the inquiries posed by the Beth, Suzanne and Exotic specifically, I attempt evaluating the fresh new term off Joanna’s mommy (described hereafter, for easier site as the ‘Clemence’ not ‘Clementia’) through an affair towards the to help you-be-queen John. Just after running up of many blind alleys, primarily through seeking reconcile brand new chronology of one toward most other, I’ve paid on what pursue. I do not point out that the thing i wrote are definitive in almost any contour otherwise means, and truth is that we will most likely not be sure of their unique term.

(a) The brand new illegitimate Joanna, child away from “Clemence,” is certainly produced out of wedlock –– as well as proved by Honorius III’s decree claiming their own genuine when you look at the April 1226, even in the event as opposed to bias towards the king otherwise arena of England (i.elizabeth., providing their particular no-claim to this throne). The decree, that has been transcribed about amazing, unpublished Check in out-of Honorius III (Reg. Vat. thirteen, fol. 122 ), claims inter alia you to “Johannes Rex anglie solutus te genuerit de soluta,” which, I’m informed, means “King John out of The united kingdomt, when solitary , fathered you from the a single lady.”

This action turned out to be a lot more complex than I might has actually imagine it is possible to!

It means Joanna can have come produced zero later on than 1189 whenever John married Isabella out-of Gloucester. Their particular mommy, “Clemence” are most likely French or Norman, given that facts in the patent goes from John’s rule shows that Joan try brought out of Normandy so you can England inside the December 1203, to arrange for marriage so you can Llywelyn ab Iorwerth (look for lower than). Joanna died in the Feb 1237.

(b) John’s genuine daughter Joan, because of the Isabella of Angouleme (married to John in 1200 during the age a dozen!), was born in the Gloucester on twenty two July 1210 (see the Tewkesbury Annals on the Rolls Series, vol. 36.we, p. 59; the Worcester Annals, ibid., vol. 36.iv, p. 399; additionally the Rotuli Litterarum Patencium to have John’s Rule, pp. 124, 143). This is actually the Joan which next married Alexander II off Scotland and you can she passed away into the 1238, specific days after Joanna (this could make up a few of the confusion evident involving the two female).